This was in 2013, the poor guy didn’t see what was coming blobcatderpy

(also comes to show how people used to associate their perspectives on software design with their political ideologies… not sure that one has changed much)

@xerz I'm not sure I understand what came between 2013 and 2023, other than the inability to run tools like OBS Studio because of Wayland's default approach to handling desktop security. I'd imagine once that was satisfactorily resolved, Wayland uptake would start to pick up, yes?

(BTW: that’s an AV1 video. If you can’t watch it, make sure you’re on the latest version of your OS and open the link to watch on my instance)

@vertigo What’s bad about the approach? OBS Studio has been working for like 2 or 3 years by now, all you need to do is click on a menu just like either of these (it’s called a “portal”) and it’s remembered for future sessions

"Screen Share" menu for monitors on GNOME 43 "Screen Share" menu for windows on GNOME 43

@xerz Well, that just reinforces my question, then, doesn't it? I'm clearly not up on outstanding Wayland issues, and clearly the OBS issue has been resolved.

But, once upon a time, with Wayland, you only had access to the bitmap data for your windows only, with no provision to gain access to the screen or to the content of other windows. So, you couldn't share screens. Good to know that has been resolved now.

However, your post implied that other issues remain unresolved, and I'm not aware of what those issues are (other than, maybe, simple inertia).

@vertigo (also, you can setup portals in a Wayland compositor that basically disregard the most basic of security concepts and just pass any petition created… but that would be insecure indeed)

@vertigo @xerz inertia, but also random issues like seamless interaction with old x11 apps, accessibility, internationalization (e.g. pinyin input), input devices beyond basic keyboard and mouse, ...

All that stuff that was worked into xorg for the last 25 years and now had to be rediscovered one by one.

Every time somebody runs in some issue (no matter how minor) that resets the clock for large distros to switch over. It's only recently that some decided to go all in.

@patrick @vertigo Doesn’t seem like IMEs are an issue at all, I have used Anthy and Mozc through Ibus just fine on GNOME. Input devices are perfectly fine as well, at least in regards to drawing tablets and multitouch displays.

Overall, I’m not sure what’s missing these days compared to X, other than maybe accessibility features like screen reading (which I’m not properly educated on) ‒ and I didn’t mean to imply there were big issues. Sure there’s work pending, but these days we’re talking about HDR or polishing fractional scale, or how implementations like KWin’s are squishing bugs to this day. That’s pretty much it.

@patrick @xerz Ahh, I see. Well, here's hoping issues get resolved in a timely manner. I suppose many issues won't be discovered until it's actually used "in prod," so to speak.

@patrick @vertigo (it’s worth noting: Wayland is, unlike X, just a protocol on its own, without a reference implementation everyone uses. Inertia issues were worsened, indeed, by the fact everyone had to implement stuff on their own. But that doesn’t seem to have come as a surprise to Wayland authors, and it’s about time.)

@xerz @patrick That sounds like good news overall to me. I'm all for simplifying the display stack if at all possible.

Maybe one day, I'll gain the courage to explore/experiment with Wayland compositors.

@vertigo @patrick If you’re curious and it helps: you can usually open a nested compositor (Wayland inside X) if you’re bored enough, it’s almost like a VM blobcatsip

  • GNOME: dbus-run-session gnome-shell --wayland --nested
  • KDE: dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland
  • wlroots-based (Sway, Wayfire, etc): just run as usual (I think)